Saturday, November 26, 2011
if it takes more faith to disbelieve, and faith is a virtue, then isnt it more virtuous to be atheist
if it takes more faith to disbelieve, and faith is a virtue, then isnt it more virtuous to be atheist
Friday, November 25, 2011
Argument From Cause
1. The universe had a beginning
No one has evidence of a universal beginning. Although the known expanding universe suggests a smaller volume universe in the past, this does not necessarily mean that it had a primordial "beginning." Recent hypothesis suggest that even a Big Bang does not require an absolute singularity. Furthermore, various "many-world" hypothesis proposed by physicists produce many Big-Bangs. There simply does not exist enough information to determine whether or not the universe had a beginning, or even what "beginning" means in terms of a universe.
2. Everything that had a beginning must have had a cause outside of itself.
Human short life spans do not allow knowledge about "everything" and we could not possibly have tested for everything in the universe to see if it had a beginning or not. Therefore we cannot possibly know everything much less know that everything had a beginning. And why would "everything" have to have an outside cause? Do quarks have an outside cause or a beginning? And what does it mean by "outside." Why not include whatever exists "outside" as part of the total universe?
3. Therefore, the universe had a cause outside of itself
Since we don't know whether the universe exists as open or closed, or whether many universes exist, or whether it had a beginning, or no beginning, we cannot possibly determine cause much less an "outside of itself."
No one has evidence of a universal beginning. Although the known expanding universe suggests a smaller volume universe in the past, this does not necessarily mean that it had a primordial "beginning." Recent hypothesis suggest that even a Big Bang does not require an absolute singularity. Furthermore, various "many-world" hypothesis proposed by physicists produce many Big-Bangs. There simply does not exist enough information to determine whether or not the universe had a beginning, or even what "beginning" means in terms of a universe.
2. Everything that had a beginning must have had a cause outside of itself.
Human short life spans do not allow knowledge about "everything" and we could not possibly have tested for everything in the universe to see if it had a beginning or not. Therefore we cannot possibly know everything much less know that everything had a beginning. And why would "everything" have to have an outside cause? Do quarks have an outside cause or a beginning? And what does it mean by "outside." Why not include whatever exists "outside" as part of the total universe?
3. Therefore, the universe had a cause outside of itself
Since we don't know whether the universe exists as open or closed, or whether many universes exist, or whether it had a beginning, or no beginning, we cannot possibly determine cause much less an "outside of itself."
Argument From Design
1. The universe has a complex design
Yes, the universe shows many examples of complexity and, indeed, may look designed to the naive, but no evidence for a designer of a universe has ever appeared. The only intellegent designers we know of come in the form of earthly based DNA life-forms.
2. Things that have a complex design, have and intelligent designer
A non-sequitur (it does not follow). Designs do not require a monogenetic single designer even for human design. Designs usually come about from many designers. A Boeing 747, for example, required many designers. In fact no one single person could have had all the knowledge required to design its entirety. Even inventions usually thought of as designed by one person (light bulb by Edison, the telephone by Bell, etc.) derive from the knowledge accumulated by many persons and many disciplines. Edison, for example, could not have invented the light bulb without prior knowledge of electricity brought about by scientists before him. I defy anyone to give an example of any physical invention created solely by a single inventor without annexing prior knowledge from others.
Taking the analogy to its extreme, everything in the universe could have come from pantheistic designers, trillions of them, where each designer (god) would consist of the dumbest possible entity needing only "knowledge" of one or two things (to react or not to react). Each designer here would consist of a subatomic particle. Thus we could have an entire universe built from many unintelligent gods. This would also explain their silence, and agrees perfectly with the science of physics.
Complex "designs" can come about without an intelligent designer at all. Snowflakes, crystals and life-forms for example. Order and complexity can even come out of disorder; for example, galaxies, star and solar systems, the Red Spot on Jupiter, hurricanes, etc. These all show order emerging from disorder.
3. Therefore, the universe has an intelligent designer
Another non-sequitur. Simply because complexity exists, says nothing about intelligence or a designer. Again, designs do not require a monogenetic single designer, much less an intelligent one. Complexity and order occurs many times without a designer at all. All present workable scientific theories about the universe and life-forms do not require a Designer for their understanding, much less from an intelligent designer or many designers.
Yes, the universe shows many examples of complexity and, indeed, may look designed to the naive, but no evidence for a designer of a universe has ever appeared. The only intellegent designers we know of come in the form of earthly based DNA life-forms.
2. Things that have a complex design, have and intelligent designer
A non-sequitur (it does not follow). Designs do not require a monogenetic single designer even for human design. Designs usually come about from many designers. A Boeing 747, for example, required many designers. In fact no one single person could have had all the knowledge required to design its entirety. Even inventions usually thought of as designed by one person (light bulb by Edison, the telephone by Bell, etc.) derive from the knowledge accumulated by many persons and many disciplines. Edison, for example, could not have invented the light bulb without prior knowledge of electricity brought about by scientists before him. I defy anyone to give an example of any physical invention created solely by a single inventor without annexing prior knowledge from others.
Taking the analogy to its extreme, everything in the universe could have come from pantheistic designers, trillions of them, where each designer (god) would consist of the dumbest possible entity needing only "knowledge" of one or two things (to react or not to react). Each designer here would consist of a subatomic particle. Thus we could have an entire universe built from many unintelligent gods. This would also explain their silence, and agrees perfectly with the science of physics.
Complex "designs" can come about without an intelligent designer at all. Snowflakes, crystals and life-forms for example. Order and complexity can even come out of disorder; for example, galaxies, star and solar systems, the Red Spot on Jupiter, hurricanes, etc. These all show order emerging from disorder.
3. Therefore, the universe has an intelligent designer
Another non-sequitur. Simply because complexity exists, says nothing about intelligence or a designer. Again, designs do not require a monogenetic single designer, much less an intelligent one. Complexity and order occurs many times without a designer at all. All present workable scientific theories about the universe and life-forms do not require a Designer for their understanding, much less from an intelligent designer or many designers.
Tuesday, November 22, 2011
Becoming an Atheist is the single most rational sane thing that ever happened to me.
Becoming an Atheist is the single most rational sane thing that ever happened to me.
Wednesday, November 16, 2011
Lawrence Krauss gives a talk on our current picture of the universe
It turns out, that in a flat universe the total energy of the universe is precisely zero...Because gravity can have negative energy. So, the negative energy of gravity balances out the positive energy of matter.
What’s so beautiful about a universe with total energy of zero?
Well, ONLY such a universe can begin from nothing… And that is remarkable… Because, the laws of physics allow a universe to begin from nothing. You don’t need a deity. You have nothing… zero total energy… and quantum fluctuations can produce a universe.
<…>
Right now, we know it to an accuracy of better than 1%. The universe IS flat. It has zero total energy, and it could have begun from nothing. … And, I’ve written this piece (and, of course, I got a lot of hate mail) saying that in my mind this answers that crazy question that religious people always keep throwing out… Which is:
“Why is there something rather than nothing?”
The answer is… There had to be. If you have “nothing” in quantum mechanics, you’ll always get something. It’s that simple. It doesn’t convince any of those people, but it’s true.
We humans believe that everything that happens to us is special... and significant. And that... Carl Sagan wrote beautifully about that in Demon Haunted World... That is MUCH of the source of religion. Okay... Every event that happens is unusual and unexpected. <...> Everything that happens has small probability... but, it happens. <...> The thing that physics tells us about the universe is that it's big, rare events happen all the time (including life), and that doesn't mean it's special.
What’s so beautiful about a universe with total energy of zero?
Well, ONLY such a universe can begin from nothing… And that is remarkable… Because, the laws of physics allow a universe to begin from nothing. You don’t need a deity. You have nothing… zero total energy… and quantum fluctuations can produce a universe.
<…>
Right now, we know it to an accuracy of better than 1%. The universe IS flat. It has zero total energy, and it could have begun from nothing. … And, I’ve written this piece (and, of course, I got a lot of hate mail) saying that in my mind this answers that crazy question that religious people always keep throwing out… Which is:
“Why is there something rather than nothing?”
The answer is… There had to be. If you have “nothing” in quantum mechanics, you’ll always get something. It’s that simple. It doesn’t convince any of those people, but it’s true.
We humans believe that everything that happens to us is special... and significant. And that... Carl Sagan wrote beautifully about that in Demon Haunted World... That is MUCH of the source of religion. Okay... Every event that happens is unusual and unexpected. <...> Everything that happens has small probability... but, it happens. <...> The thing that physics tells us about the universe is that it's big, rare events happen all the time (including life), and that doesn't mean it's special.
the wittiest atheist response in history
Below is an exchange I just saw on the FAQ section of the blog, Answers in Genesis Busted! The first section is a response to FAQ topics such as "If people came from monkeys, why are monkeys still around?" and "How did life begin?" This person I assume felt compelled to jump in and launch into a rambling monologue about love, truth, god, and satan. It is long and peppered with infuriating repetition, misspellings, and is basically word salad. But I promise, you will thank me when you read the wittiest atheist response in history that is below it.
The post:
"Let me tell you right now. I'm not going to convert you.
We both know only you ultimately decide for yourself what you want to believe. If you ever feel a certain way because of what I've said, maybe you should believe God is trying to tell you something. I'm not gonna, for your sake, pretend God doesn't exist. So when I say He does, you shouldn't get upset. But I know you will, and I know the reason. But since you didn't ask...I won't tell.
1) If you don't beleieve in God. Why do you believe in Love?
2) How can good and evil exist, if there is no God? How do we know of a destinction?
3) If you only see with your eyes, can you really tell me, you can love? I know its possible. Yet whenever you choose to ignore God, you lose that ability more and more. And I know thats what you've been going through. Love can't be seen, smelt, or heard. It can only be felt. So does that mean it doesn't exist? People marry because of love. Is it nothing? Its obviously not.
4) Tell me why you hate God. Do you hate all that is good and love? If you don't, then maybe its because you have the wrong idea about Him. After all if its the truth you love to much, why do you choose not to understand?
God exists. Seeing Him, isn't something I need to believe, because He is with me. Thats why I beleive. In any religion, nothing changes by them believing it. When you believe in God, He will be with you. He won't leave us on Earth with comeplete seperation and expect us to believe in Him. That will never happen. He will be with us. He will not force you to beleive. That is why we have a choice. Otherwise its not your free will. Its not a choice.
What do you, as an atheist, have to live for? Absolutley nothing. Theres no purpose or point. Is that true though, No. There is a reason. You can plainly see there is no reason without God. Its like your pretending theres a reason to keep your sanity, but then denying God. Did you think it will be simple to believe in Him. Do you think the Devil will allow you so easly to believe Him? Of course not.
Atheists will say anyway that none of this is true. But that is the very reason why its so hard for them to believe. The devil is trying to stop you. Its so easy to understand, yet I told you it won't be easy to believe in Him. Whatever I say won't make it easier so don't look for my help.
Ask God to help you understand. Is it so hard to hate a God who is love? Who is nothing like anything you've thought or have been led to believe by the Devil.
God is love and He made you and there is a connection, He wouldn't create you without the ability to love Him. Its not impossible to truly understand the truth.
There is absolutly no reason to say God doesn't exist, when He has always been with you. He will never leave you. Have you ever thought as a child about God? And not about what people think He is, but what He truly is.
You know you've been watched over. You might have felt alone but you've always known He was with you. And its probably not the idea you have of Him you've thought of, but it was Him. Don't let anyone tell you who God is. Find Him out for yourself. Not from others. To understand Him is to know Him. So find out for yourself. You may need help, and thats ok, but what I'm saying is, don't let others give you a false idea about God.
Heres a suggestion - Amazingfacts.org or .tv for videos. They can tell you all you want to know. Or any questions you have to ask. My name is Justin."
The response:
"Hi, JustinSkye! I read your message while passing by this site, and you're right about one thing: you're not going to convert anybody with that.
A few questions for you:
1) If you don't believe in Leprechauns, why do you believe in mischief and rainbows?
2) How can light and music exist, if there is no Apollo on his golden chariot?
3) If you only see with your eyes, can you really tell me, can you fear? I know it's possible. Yet whenever you choose to ignore vampires, you lose that ability more and more. Fear can't be seen, smelt, or heard. So does that mean it doesn't exist? People hide under the covers because of fear. Is it nothing? It's obviously not.
4) Tell me why you hate elephant-headed Ganesha, the four-armed Lord of Beginnings. Do you hate His domains of art, science, intellect, and wisdom? If you don't then maybe it's because you have the wrong idea about Him or his associated Muladhara chakra. After all, if it's the truth you love so much, why do you choose not to understand?
Xenu, my Galactic Overlord, exists. Seeing Him isn't something I need to believe, because He is with me. When you believe in Xenu, He will be with you. He will not force you to believe. That is why we have a choice. Otherwise it's not your free will.
What do you, as a non-believer in Thor, have to live for? Absolutely nothing. There's no purpose, no point, no comprehension of the apostrophe in the written lies of the non-believer. You can plainly see there is no reason (and no Jötunn-slaying) without Thor or the Sky-Father, Odin. Deniers of the Hammer-Wielding, Fiery-Haired One will say anyway that none of this is true. But that is the very reason why it's so hard for them to believe. Loki and those Jötunn are trying to stop you.
Ask the Blue Fairy to help you understand. Is it so hard to hate a Fairy who is love? Who is nothing like anything you've thought or have been led to believe by sneaking chupacabra.
Allah is mercy and He made you and there is a connection, He wouldn't create you without the ability to obey Him. It's not impossible to truly understand the truth as revealed by His Messenger, Mohammed.
There is absolutely no reason to say The Invisible Girl doesn't exist, when Susan Storm has always been with you. She will never leave you. Have you ever thought as a child about superheroes? In blue spandex? Have you ever thought as a grown man about Jessica Alba? Of course you have.
You know you've been watched over. You might have felt alone but you've always known the Ghost of Elvis was with you. And it's probably not the idea you have of Elvis you've thought of, but it was the Sideburned One Himself. Don't let anyone tell you who the Ghost of Elvis is. Certainly don't believe The Colonel, or anything Priscilla says. Find Him out for yourself. Thankyouverymuch.
You may need help, and that's OK, but what I'm saying is, don't let others give you a false idea about Yahweh, the Bronze-Age deity Who slaughters children, commands rape and slavery, and hates the shrimp He created.
Here's a suggestion: http://www.nobeliefs.com/DarkBible/darkbible1.htm or http://unreasonablefaith.com/2008/11/16/an-evil-god-table-of-contents/ They can tell you all you want to know.
Good luck on your awakening!"
I can't credit the genius who wrote this, because clicking on his name links me to nothing, but I really want to know this person. :-)
The post:
"Let me tell you right now. I'm not going to convert you.
We both know only you ultimately decide for yourself what you want to believe. If you ever feel a certain way because of what I've said, maybe you should believe God is trying to tell you something. I'm not gonna, for your sake, pretend God doesn't exist. So when I say He does, you shouldn't get upset. But I know you will, and I know the reason. But since you didn't ask...I won't tell.
1) If you don't beleieve in God. Why do you believe in Love?
2) How can good and evil exist, if there is no God? How do we know of a destinction?
3) If you only see with your eyes, can you really tell me, you can love? I know its possible. Yet whenever you choose to ignore God, you lose that ability more and more. And I know thats what you've been going through. Love can't be seen, smelt, or heard. It can only be felt. So does that mean it doesn't exist? People marry because of love. Is it nothing? Its obviously not.
4) Tell me why you hate God. Do you hate all that is good and love? If you don't, then maybe its because you have the wrong idea about Him. After all if its the truth you love to much, why do you choose not to understand?
God exists. Seeing Him, isn't something I need to believe, because He is with me. Thats why I beleive. In any religion, nothing changes by them believing it. When you believe in God, He will be with you. He won't leave us on Earth with comeplete seperation and expect us to believe in Him. That will never happen. He will be with us. He will not force you to beleive. That is why we have a choice. Otherwise its not your free will. Its not a choice.
What do you, as an atheist, have to live for? Absolutley nothing. Theres no purpose or point. Is that true though, No. There is a reason. You can plainly see there is no reason without God. Its like your pretending theres a reason to keep your sanity, but then denying God. Did you think it will be simple to believe in Him. Do you think the Devil will allow you so easly to believe Him? Of course not.
Atheists will say anyway that none of this is true. But that is the very reason why its so hard for them to believe. The devil is trying to stop you. Its so easy to understand, yet I told you it won't be easy to believe in Him. Whatever I say won't make it easier so don't look for my help.
Ask God to help you understand. Is it so hard to hate a God who is love? Who is nothing like anything you've thought or have been led to believe by the Devil.
God is love and He made you and there is a connection, He wouldn't create you without the ability to love Him. Its not impossible to truly understand the truth.
There is absolutly no reason to say God doesn't exist, when He has always been with you. He will never leave you. Have you ever thought as a child about God? And not about what people think He is, but what He truly is.
You know you've been watched over. You might have felt alone but you've always known He was with you. And its probably not the idea you have of Him you've thought of, but it was Him. Don't let anyone tell you who God is. Find Him out for yourself. Not from others. To understand Him is to know Him. So find out for yourself. You may need help, and thats ok, but what I'm saying is, don't let others give you a false idea about God.
Heres a suggestion - Amazingfacts.org or .tv for videos. They can tell you all you want to know. Or any questions you have to ask. My name is Justin."
The response:
"Hi, JustinSkye! I read your message while passing by this site, and you're right about one thing: you're not going to convert anybody with that.
A few questions for you:
1) If you don't believe in Leprechauns, why do you believe in mischief and rainbows?
2) How can light and music exist, if there is no Apollo on his golden chariot?
3) If you only see with your eyes, can you really tell me, can you fear? I know it's possible. Yet whenever you choose to ignore vampires, you lose that ability more and more. Fear can't be seen, smelt, or heard. So does that mean it doesn't exist? People hide under the covers because of fear. Is it nothing? It's obviously not.
4) Tell me why you hate elephant-headed Ganesha, the four-armed Lord of Beginnings. Do you hate His domains of art, science, intellect, and wisdom? If you don't then maybe it's because you have the wrong idea about Him or his associated Muladhara chakra. After all, if it's the truth you love so much, why do you choose not to understand?
Xenu, my Galactic Overlord, exists. Seeing Him isn't something I need to believe, because He is with me. When you believe in Xenu, He will be with you. He will not force you to believe. That is why we have a choice. Otherwise it's not your free will.
What do you, as a non-believer in Thor, have to live for? Absolutely nothing. There's no purpose, no point, no comprehension of the apostrophe in the written lies of the non-believer. You can plainly see there is no reason (and no Jötunn-slaying) without Thor or the Sky-Father, Odin. Deniers of the Hammer-Wielding, Fiery-Haired One will say anyway that none of this is true. But that is the very reason why it's so hard for them to believe. Loki and those Jötunn are trying to stop you.
Ask the Blue Fairy to help you understand. Is it so hard to hate a Fairy who is love? Who is nothing like anything you've thought or have been led to believe by sneaking chupacabra.
Allah is mercy and He made you and there is a connection, He wouldn't create you without the ability to obey Him. It's not impossible to truly understand the truth as revealed by His Messenger, Mohammed.
There is absolutely no reason to say The Invisible Girl doesn't exist, when Susan Storm has always been with you. She will never leave you. Have you ever thought as a child about superheroes? In blue spandex? Have you ever thought as a grown man about Jessica Alba? Of course you have.
You know you've been watched over. You might have felt alone but you've always known the Ghost of Elvis was with you. And it's probably not the idea you have of Elvis you've thought of, but it was the Sideburned One Himself. Don't let anyone tell you who the Ghost of Elvis is. Certainly don't believe The Colonel, or anything Priscilla says. Find Him out for yourself. Thankyouverymuch.
You may need help, and that's OK, but what I'm saying is, don't let others give you a false idea about Yahweh, the Bronze-Age deity Who slaughters children, commands rape and slavery, and hates the shrimp He created.
Here's a suggestion: http://www.nobeliefs.com/DarkBible/darkbible1.htm or http://unreasonablefaith.com/2008/11/16/an-evil-god-table-of-contents/ They can tell you all you want to know.
Good luck on your awakening!"
I can't credit the genius who wrote this, because clicking on his name links me to nothing, but I really want to know this person. :-)
Tuesday, November 15, 2011
Who but a delusional slave considers it "free choice" 2 have only 1 option available w/out fear of punishment or torture #teamjesus #atheist
Who but a delusional slave considers it "free choice" 2 have only 1 option available w/out fear of punishment or torture #teamjesus #atheist
Who but a slave thanks his master for what his master has decided to do without bothering to consult him?
Who but a slave thanks his master for what his master has decided to do without bothering to consult him?
Monday, November 14, 2011
Don't ask "What is the meaning of life?". Just ask "Does life have to have a meaning in order for me to live it?"
Don't ask "What is the meaning of life?". Just ask "Does life have to have a meaning in order for me to live it?"
It's better to live in freedom for one life time than to be a slave of God for an eternity.
It's better to live in freedom for one life time than to be a slave of God for an eternity.
Sunday, November 13, 2011
i'm not afraid of dying & going 2 hell or heaven. I expect death 2 B nothingness, 4 removing me from fears of death, i'm thankful 2 atheism
i'm not afraid of dying & going 2 hell or heaven. I expect death 2 B nothingness, 4 removing me from fears of death, i'm thankful 2 atheism
I expect death to be nothingness and, for removing me from all possible fears of death, I am thankful to atheism.
Although the time of death is approaching me, I am not afraid of dying and going to Hell or (what would be considerably worse) going to the popularized version of Heaven. I expect death to be nothingness and, for removing me from all possible fears of death, I am thankful to atheism.
--Isaac Asimov
--Isaac Asimov
Saturday, November 12, 2011
#teamjesus comforts by telling us death is not real. Science comforts by telling us how incredibly lucky we are to have lived #atheist
#teamjesus comforts by telling us death is not real. Science comforts by telling us how incredibly lucky we are to have lived #atheist
Friday, November 11, 2011
morality is doing what is right regardless what we R told. christianity is doing what we R told, no matter what is right #teamjesus #atheist
morality is doing what is right regardless what we R told. christianity is doing what we R told, no matter what is right #teamjesus #atheist
If you seem to witness such a thing [a miracle], there are two possibilities. The first is that the laws of nature have been suspended (in your favor). The second is that you are under a misapprehension, or suffering from a delusion. Thus the likelihood of the second must be weighed against the likelihood of the first.
If you seem to witness such a thing [a miracle], there are two possibilities. The first is that the laws of nature have been suspended (in your favor). The second is that you are under a misapprehension, or suffering from a delusion. Thus the likelihood of the second must be weighed against the likelihood of the first.
Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise.~ James Madison #teamjesus #atheist
Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise.~ James Madison #teamjesus #atheist
there is something feeble & contemptible about ppl who cant face life w/out the help of the comfortable #christian myth. #teamjesus #atheist
there is something feeble & contemptible about ppl who cant face life w/out the help of the comfortable #christian myth. #teamjesus #atheist
To be an atheist requires strength of mind and goodness of heart found in not one of a thousand.
To be an atheist requires strength of mind and goodness of heart found in not one of a thousand.
Thursday, November 10, 2011
You can’t sell stupidity, but you can disguise it as religion and make millions. #teamjesus #atheist
You can’t sell stupidity, but you can disguise it as religion and make millions. #teamjesus #atheist
When someone tells you that Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot killed millions because they were Atheists, answer that they were not responsible for the horrendous atrocities; god was! Those three were simply acting out god’s great plan. That should shut them up.
When someone tells you that Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot killed millions because they were Atheists, answer that they were not responsible for the horrendous atrocities; god was! Those three were simply acting out god’s great plan. That should shut them up.
The Sun provides life on Earth, so why not "pray" to the Sun? Would the Sun care if everyone died on the planet, or if a futurist predicted the end of the world? No. The Sun will set and rise over the horizon whether we are here or not.
The Sun provides life on Earth, so why not "pray" to the Sun? Would the Sun care if everyone died on the planet, or if a futurist predicted the end of the world? No. The Sun will set and rise over the horizon whether we are here or not.
Saturday, November 5, 2011
A Universe From Nothing
In a flat universe the total energy of the universe is precisely zero. Because gravity can have negative energy so the negative energy of gravity balances out the positive energy of matter. What's so beautiful about a universe with a total energy of zero? Only such a universe can begin from nothing. . . the laws of physics allow the universe to begin from nothing. You don't need a deity. You have nothing, zero total energy, and quantum fluctuations can produce a universe.
--Lawrence Krauss (A Universe From Nothing)
--Lawrence Krauss (A Universe From Nothing)
Wednesday, November 2, 2011
WHY I’M ATHEIST & NOT AGNOSTIC
Dear friend,
I thoroughly enjoyed the discussion we had on your live radio show last night, although there was one thing which left a sour taste in my mouth. This was your assertion that I am an agnostic and not an atheist. I know you meant this as a polite gesture, since in your view agnosticism is more palatable. In my view, it is just the opposite. Here is why I say this:
Agnosticism is a position concerning KNOWLEDGE.
a = not or absence of
gnostic (gnosis) = Greek for “knowledge”
An agnostic posits that a god does not exist in the context of human knowledge. What agnostics are doing by taking this position is to attempt to escape the stigma associated with admitting they don’t believe in a god by asserting that there is a “god” which is unknowable. This is worse than saying there is no god because it implies that even proof of a god cannot be admissible because there is no way of knowing of a god and, therefore, no way of knowing of proof of a god. God is completely shut out by the agnostic under the guise of acknowledging a god concept. As such, not a single attribute applied to a god by any religion can be postulated to an agnostic. The agnostic enjoys the benefit of the church having decided that any acknowledgment of a god is better than outright denial. But the agnostic has cleverly denied the existence of a god for GOOD!
Atheism is a position concerning THEOLOGY.
a = not or absence of
theism = belief in a deity or deities
Unlike the agnostic who cannot know of a god which is unknowable, the atheist is open-minded enough to accept demonstrable proof and upon such proof will know of – which is to say believe in – such god or gods. Historically, agnostics are considered more acceptable than atheists because of the false appearance in the acceptance that there is a god. But a god which is impossible to know of is much further away than a god which may be knowable given the proof that an atheist is willing to accept. An atheist who posits the absence of a god and furthers this assertion with the denial of the possibility of there being a god is just as close-minded as the theist in which they oppose. Dogma is dogma no matter which pole the attraction. I am not such an atheist. I am an atheist who does not believe in a god and who seriously doubts that there will ever be proof of the existence of any of the thousands of gods proposed by the human race. Monotheists have also since abandoned the thousands of other gods in exchange for one god. I’ve simply gone one god further than monotheism. This is called atheism. And given acceptable proof, I reserve the right to acknowledge a god or gods.
Atheists need proof
The types of proof an atheist will accept are based purely upon the assertions made by any particular religion concerning their god or gods. Remember, atheism is about THEISM, not about scientific wonders of some unexplainable force which you might conveniently label as a “god.” Your Abrahamic god is already clearly defined in scriptures which are claimed to be the word of this very god. So, it’s indisputable. And based upon these characterizations of the Abrahamic god, here are three examples of proof an atheist would accept:
It is written that your god answers prayers. I want statistics that show results of prayer are more probable than a coin toss.
It is written that your god loves everyone. I want all poverty and sickness and hunger cured absent any conditions imposed on the people being cured. Conditional love is a vice – not a virtue.
It is written that your god performs miracles. I want a demonstration. I don’t want naturally occurring phenomenon to be described as miracles performed by your god because they’re not. Nor is our emergence. Hard to conceive? Yes -much is. Miracle? No. An acceptable miracle would be for your god to simply reveal itself at once to a crowd of people of all different religions (I would like to be there too).
So far, the only “proof” anyone has ever been able to put forward concerning a god or gods is personal feelings or thoughts. By definition, a god is a supernatural being which is omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, and omnibenevolent. Remove any of those attributes and you get something less than a god.
An omnipotent god has the strength and energy to manipulate anything in the physical realm. It was this god-force which was long ago (and still is today if you ask Pat Robertson) attributed to earthquakes and storms and fire and flood. We know that the forces of nature require no god to remain in full force.
An omniscient god knows all. Past, present, and future. This means that the idea of putting living creatures through a test while already knowing the outcome is nothing short of cruel and sadistic. All the prayers and worship and sacrifice made for this god by anyone – or the denial of this god by anyone – will not change their own outcome nor that of the universe. This means there is no free will. No choice. No chance to “change history” or “control our own destiny” for any of us.
An omnipresent god is a god who is everywhere all the time. Under the premise of this intrusive imposition, we are all being watched every moment of our lives. Even in our sleep. And including our most private thoughts. We cannot escape the surveillance of this god and therefore have absolutely no privacy. Our “free will” is threatened as we make decisions to appease this supernatural “peeping Tom” over ourselves and others.
An omnibenevolent god is one who loves and cares for everything. Although this all-loving god did not care enough about animals or plants to give them a soul and thus denying them the rights of passage to its “kingdom.” Although this all-loving god does not love those who don’t love it. Although this all-loving god does not love children enough to prevent their being molested or starved or becoming the unintended target of bullets or poison or still birth. Although this all-loving god does not love me enough to have placed the knowledge of its existence in my brain from birth and, instead, makes itself impossible for me to justify or acknowledge. And as if this weren’t enough, this planet, this universe, and everything in it, is subjected to the cruelty of chaos and extreme external and internal forces and does not reconcile with omnibenevolence.
But I get it. All of these god traits are obviously based upon a human desire to build a sense of security through ultimate control of everything. It is impossible for man to control everything and so having a “big buddy” who can is a clear advantage. A way to frighten enemies and rest easy at night. Although some of us are content with the absenceof an imaginary big buddy. We realize that by working together human kind can find REAL security and that collectively, WE are the “big buddy.” But through arguments that his god is the real one and her god is not, the “big buddy” remains only an elusive force of separatism among the faithful, affecting all of us.
In the atheistic view, the time for gods has passed. Mankind is entering a point where important decisions for our survival must be made using sound evidence and lesson’s learned, placing superstitions and dogma aside. We have great power over our environment and our future and unless we decide the world is in OUR hands and not at the mercy of some antiquated man-made myth, we just may bring forth the mass destruction which our oppressed desert-dwelling religious pioneers saw as the only way to wipe out their hell-bound enslavers while ending their own horribly miserable mortal lives in exchange for an imagined eternal bliss. They have planted the seeds of destruction by claiming their god wants this to happen. And we are cursed with this self-fulfilling prophecy as long as we continue to cling to these ancient superstitions.
In closing, I want you to know that aside from not having been presented with any proof for a god, I am an atheist because I don’t agree that the life we have now should be cheapened by the false promise of a better life after death. I think it’s extremely irresponsible to believe there needs to be a “final act” which amounts to suicide at a global scale. I don’t agree that our purpose is to serve a supernatural dictator that commands that we love it. And I loathe the idea of encouraging people, especially children, to pretend they love a mythical being using the “motivation” of eternal damnation. The human race can do much better than that.
Sincerely yours,
Sean Rowland
SupportAtheism.com
I thoroughly enjoyed the discussion we had on your live radio show last night, although there was one thing which left a sour taste in my mouth. This was your assertion that I am an agnostic and not an atheist. I know you meant this as a polite gesture, since in your view agnosticism is more palatable. In my view, it is just the opposite. Here is why I say this:
Agnosticism is a position concerning KNOWLEDGE.
a = not or absence of
gnostic (gnosis) = Greek for “knowledge”
An agnostic posits that a god does not exist in the context of human knowledge. What agnostics are doing by taking this position is to attempt to escape the stigma associated with admitting they don’t believe in a god by asserting that there is a “god” which is unknowable. This is worse than saying there is no god because it implies that even proof of a god cannot be admissible because there is no way of knowing of a god and, therefore, no way of knowing of proof of a god. God is completely shut out by the agnostic under the guise of acknowledging a god concept. As such, not a single attribute applied to a god by any religion can be postulated to an agnostic. The agnostic enjoys the benefit of the church having decided that any acknowledgment of a god is better than outright denial. But the agnostic has cleverly denied the existence of a god for GOOD!
Atheism is a position concerning THEOLOGY.
a = not or absence of
theism = belief in a deity or deities
Unlike the agnostic who cannot know of a god which is unknowable, the atheist is open-minded enough to accept demonstrable proof and upon such proof will know of – which is to say believe in – such god or gods. Historically, agnostics are considered more acceptable than atheists because of the false appearance in the acceptance that there is a god. But a god which is impossible to know of is much further away than a god which may be knowable given the proof that an atheist is willing to accept. An atheist who posits the absence of a god and furthers this assertion with the denial of the possibility of there being a god is just as close-minded as the theist in which they oppose. Dogma is dogma no matter which pole the attraction. I am not such an atheist. I am an atheist who does not believe in a god and who seriously doubts that there will ever be proof of the existence of any of the thousands of gods proposed by the human race. Monotheists have also since abandoned the thousands of other gods in exchange for one god. I’ve simply gone one god further than monotheism. This is called atheism. And given acceptable proof, I reserve the right to acknowledge a god or gods.
Atheists need proof
The types of proof an atheist will accept are based purely upon the assertions made by any particular religion concerning their god or gods. Remember, atheism is about THEISM, not about scientific wonders of some unexplainable force which you might conveniently label as a “god.” Your Abrahamic god is already clearly defined in scriptures which are claimed to be the word of this very god. So, it’s indisputable. And based upon these characterizations of the Abrahamic god, here are three examples of proof an atheist would accept:
It is written that your god answers prayers. I want statistics that show results of prayer are more probable than a coin toss.
It is written that your god loves everyone. I want all poverty and sickness and hunger cured absent any conditions imposed on the people being cured. Conditional love is a vice – not a virtue.
It is written that your god performs miracles. I want a demonstration. I don’t want naturally occurring phenomenon to be described as miracles performed by your god because they’re not. Nor is our emergence. Hard to conceive? Yes -much is. Miracle? No. An acceptable miracle would be for your god to simply reveal itself at once to a crowd of people of all different religions (I would like to be there too).
So far, the only “proof” anyone has ever been able to put forward concerning a god or gods is personal feelings or thoughts. By definition, a god is a supernatural being which is omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, and omnibenevolent. Remove any of those attributes and you get something less than a god.
An omnipotent god has the strength and energy to manipulate anything in the physical realm. It was this god-force which was long ago (and still is today if you ask Pat Robertson) attributed to earthquakes and storms and fire and flood. We know that the forces of nature require no god to remain in full force.
An omniscient god knows all. Past, present, and future. This means that the idea of putting living creatures through a test while already knowing the outcome is nothing short of cruel and sadistic. All the prayers and worship and sacrifice made for this god by anyone – or the denial of this god by anyone – will not change their own outcome nor that of the universe. This means there is no free will. No choice. No chance to “change history” or “control our own destiny” for any of us.
An omnipresent god is a god who is everywhere all the time. Under the premise of this intrusive imposition, we are all being watched every moment of our lives. Even in our sleep. And including our most private thoughts. We cannot escape the surveillance of this god and therefore have absolutely no privacy. Our “free will” is threatened as we make decisions to appease this supernatural “peeping Tom” over ourselves and others.
An omnibenevolent god is one who loves and cares for everything. Although this all-loving god did not care enough about animals or plants to give them a soul and thus denying them the rights of passage to its “kingdom.” Although this all-loving god does not love those who don’t love it. Although this all-loving god does not love children enough to prevent their being molested or starved or becoming the unintended target of bullets or poison or still birth. Although this all-loving god does not love me enough to have placed the knowledge of its existence in my brain from birth and, instead, makes itself impossible for me to justify or acknowledge. And as if this weren’t enough, this planet, this universe, and everything in it, is subjected to the cruelty of chaos and extreme external and internal forces and does not reconcile with omnibenevolence.
But I get it. All of these god traits are obviously based upon a human desire to build a sense of security through ultimate control of everything. It is impossible for man to control everything and so having a “big buddy” who can is a clear advantage. A way to frighten enemies and rest easy at night. Although some of us are content with the absenceof an imaginary big buddy. We realize that by working together human kind can find REAL security and that collectively, WE are the “big buddy.” But through arguments that his god is the real one and her god is not, the “big buddy” remains only an elusive force of separatism among the faithful, affecting all of us.
In the atheistic view, the time for gods has passed. Mankind is entering a point where important decisions for our survival must be made using sound evidence and lesson’s learned, placing superstitions and dogma aside. We have great power over our environment and our future and unless we decide the world is in OUR hands and not at the mercy of some antiquated man-made myth, we just may bring forth the mass destruction which our oppressed desert-dwelling religious pioneers saw as the only way to wipe out their hell-bound enslavers while ending their own horribly miserable mortal lives in exchange for an imagined eternal bliss. They have planted the seeds of destruction by claiming their god wants this to happen. And we are cursed with this self-fulfilling prophecy as long as we continue to cling to these ancient superstitions.
In closing, I want you to know that aside from not having been presented with any proof for a god, I am an atheist because I don’t agree that the life we have now should be cheapened by the false promise of a better life after death. I think it’s extremely irresponsible to believe there needs to be a “final act” which amounts to suicide at a global scale. I don’t agree that our purpose is to serve a supernatural dictator that commands that we love it. And I loathe the idea of encouraging people, especially children, to pretend they love a mythical being using the “motivation” of eternal damnation. The human race can do much better than that.
Sincerely yours,
Sean Rowland
SupportAtheism.com
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